0.26 TR: Shalom, George. Um, as you just said, I am the leader of the English Defence League. Um –
0.32 GG interrupts: I’m asking who you are first, is that your real name, Tommy Robinson?
0.35 TR No it’s not my real name, you know my real name, obviously
0.37 GG I don’t, actually, I’m just wondering why you’re calling yourself Tommy Robinson if that’s not your name
00:42TR It’s Steven, and I started off calling myself Tommy Robinson, the reason for that was because we were going up and opposing against militant Islam, um, a very extreme faction of the islamic ideology which kill people in the name of Allah. And we’re opposin’ them, bringin’ heat on ‘em and puttin’heat on their community. And automatically, they want to take their revenge out on me, so originally I started off, um, hidin’ my identity, but now I’m proud to show everyone who I am and stand up against it and – (unintelligible)
01.08 GG interrupts: so you’re not in the same danger you thought you were or –
01.12 TR I – I am, I am, yeah, of course I’m in danger, but, uh,
(unintelligible GG interrupts)
01.18GG But why have you started to use your own name now then that’s what I’m trying to establish
01.21 TR Because it, because it was exposed, not by myself, obviously, I want to keep myself safe and keep my family safe
(01.23 GG over the top of TR: okay, alright)
01.26 GG Well I, I , I, I, honestly didn’t know your real name, but I’m glad that you’ve ah revealed it because it’s always better to talk to people in their real names . and, ah, secondly I said, “who are you?” What are you? You said you’re the leader of the EDL, who made you the leader?
01.40 TR: I made myself the leader. I thought, I, formed it, I formed the English Defence League, and we formed it in Luton after protests against our soldiers and it’s just spread as a phenomenon across the country and it’s –
01.51 GG (interrupting) So you made yourself the leader –ah – but you’re a big supporter of democracy
01.57 TR yeah, yeah I am, yeah. I’ve actually met you, George, in 2007, um, in Luton, actually. Um, I went along to a Respect Party, it was in Dallow Road, Luton, I dunno if you remember.
02.47 GG I don’t actually, no
02.08 TR No, well you was holdin a meetin, I went along, I brought my bird with me, and we went to see what the Respect Party was all about -
02.13 GG you brought a bird with you, what a parrot?
02.16 TR (slight laugh)yeah, yeah, no, I brought a girl with me and we come to this, come to the meeting, and as we walked into the meeting, there was someone, someone stops her as we were comin’ in, and they said, “you need to sit this side, and you need to sit that side” . I asked them what they were on about, and I could see loads of muslim men on one side and loads of muslim women on the other side. And I said, “well I’ve come with, with my missus, I want to sit with my missus.” “No no no you can’t.” And I said, “Isn’t your party called the Respect Party? Or am I missing something, because you’re separating me from my missus when I want to sit down with my missus and listen to what your party’s about.” And there was another, afro-Caribbean man there who was kickin off at the same point because he wanted to sit with his missus. That’s when I just, in my own view, thought what a laughing stock this Respect Party is and why the hell is it calling itself “Respect?”
02.56 GG Well, that was just about as big a pack of lies as is you claiming that your name was Tommy Robinson because no such thing has ever happened, EVER happened at any Respect Party meeting, but we’re not here to talk about Respect, we’re here to talk about you and in principle in particular rather, we want to talk about the allegation by the police that your extremist, violent, hate-filled behaviour, and rhetoric is fuelling extremism in our country. What do you say?
03.28 TR I think that, ah, the police officer said that I… he didn’t word it the way you’ve just worded it in any sort of a way
03.34 GG I’ve got it, I’ve got his quotes here, if you want me to read them out I will
03.38 TR Yeah go on then, cause I don’t remember him saying “hate-filled rhetoric”.. I don’t, I listen to -
03.43 GG (interrupting) It says, violence and intimidation are unacceptable wherever it comes from. You can’t tackle extremism by being extremist yourself. You don’t prevent hatred by being hateful yourself. That’s what the police minister said.
03.58 TR Okay. Well as I said this morning when I spoke to someone about this September 11 was our fault, 7/7 was our fault, the last fourteen hundred years of islam bein’ at war with non-islam, that’s our fault. Everything’s our fault, it’s –
04.08 GG interrupts: What do you know about the last fourteen hundred years of islam?
04.12 TR – now –
04.13 GG Your knuckles are dragging the ground. What do you know about the last fourteen hundred of islam? You know nothing about islam
04.20 TR: - Now, George, are you a supporter, a supporter of Hamas?
04.22 GR Do you want me to start quizzing you, Tommy, ‘cause it’ll embarrass you. You want me to start asking you -
04.28 TR – I’m asking you a question: are you a supporter of Hamas?
04.29 GG (over the top of TR) Stop. Well I’m asking the questions, but no I’m not a supporter of Hamas.
04.32 TR – you don’t (unintelligible) I watched a video with you openly -
04.33 GG But what does that have to do with you
04.36 GG Tommy, Tommy TOMMY, you
04.39TR If I say so, I stand by it
04.30 GG You talk about the last fourteen hundred years of islam. About which I am absolutely certain you are sublimely ignorant. You know nothing about the last fourteen hundred years of islam because your knuckles are dragging the ground. You’re a ignoramus who describes women as birds. And then as their missus who calls himself Tommy but his name’s something else..
05.06 TR I (unintelligible) I just..
05.07 GG ..and who’s been accused by the police and the police minister of being hateful and extremist. Now. Let me ask you a question.
05.16 TR (unintelligible)
05.17 GG Why do you send your thugs into city centres to create havoc for the police, expense for the taxpayer and leading to dozens if not hundreds of arrests, since the operation that you started?
05.34 TR Because there’s an islamist epidemic across this country. Even, even, even last week there was a, a study throughout twelve universities and a third of muslims said that killing was justified in the name of islam. Ninety percent – it’s, it’s an epidemic -
05.48 GG Let me stop you there, Tom.
05.50 TR: go on.
05.51 GG Which twelve universities held a study in which a third of muslims said that killing in the name of islam was correct (?) or acceptable?
06.02 TR I looked up –
06.03 GG (interrupting) No you don’t have it because you’re an ignorant wee naïf. You’re quoting a non-existent –
06.09 TR I’m not quoting non-existent –
06.10 GG well you’re quoting a survey on national radio
06.12 TR twenty-eight, twenty-eight percent of ‘em. I’ll ring you back in a minute, and find it
06.16 GG No don’t ring me back in a minute. You’ve just made a completely false allegation about 12 universities and about the Respect Party in Luton and about your name. and about a conversation with me that you’ve never had.
06.32 TR And you just said you don’t support Hamas and I just watched a video of you on the internet, on youtube where you openly say you support Hamas, so why would you deny that when you’re on the radio?
06.40 GG Well, that’s another lie
06.41 TR You said Hamas are not terrorists. You said Hamas are not
06.44 GG that is – that is another lie.
06.46 TR You said Hamas are not terrorists did you not?
06.47 GG uh, ah Hamas are not terrorists is not the same thing as saying that I support Hamas
06.52 TR did you say Hamas are not terrorists ?
06.53 GG Don’t you think something calling itself –
06.55 TR … answer the question, George, did you say Hamas are not terrorists/
06.58 GG Hamas are not terror, Hamas are not terrorists
06.59 TR Okay, okay
07.03 GG: Shut up and let me say it – Hamas are not terrorists full stop. I do not support Hamas full stop.
07.08 TR: (while GG is talking)Now can I speak? Can I speak?
07.10 TR: George can I speak/
07.12 GG: Yes, go on
07.13 TR: Hamas Charter – Israel will exist and continue to until Islam obliterates it, that is the first thing in their charter, that is the first thing in their charter, you are saying they are not terrorists
07.22 GG: [INTERUPTION – TR’s words difficult to hear due to GG’s talking over him] Actually, actually, that’s as accurate...
07.26 TR: now, George, are you gonna let me talk
07.27 GG: not when you are telling lies, no.
07.30 TR: The EU listed them as a proscribed terrorist organisation in January 26th 2009. The Hadith which features many times in their charter, it actually, your listeners will not believe this, they have a thing that says the final day of judgement will come when all the Jews are dead. If it’s in the hadith [INDECIPHERABLE] the charter and actually says
07.49 GG: [INTERUPTS]
07.50 TR: Can you let me talk George? It actually says.. [INTERRUPTION FROM GG]
07.52 GG: No I’m not going to let you talk [INDECIPHERABLE]
07.54 TR: But you’re saying that they’re not terrorists, your saying that they’re not terrorists, you’ve said that their not terrorists
[GG INTERRUPTS MAKING WORDS DIFFICULT TO MAKE OUT ~ TR trying to say something about Israel being obliterated]
08.00 GG: Listen , listen Tommy, we are not on here to debate Hamas, if you want to debate Palestine with me, you better get one of your friends who actually knows something about it
08.06 TR trying to interject: I don’t, I don’t wanna, I wanna explain about, I wanna explain that you’re sayin’ they’re not terrorists, and what I’m sayin’ is, in their charter
08.12 GG: [interrupts] Tommy, you’ve only got a minute or so left so, trust me, you don’t want to waste it with a debate about the Hamas Charter. You really don’t
08.18 TR: [interjection] ok
08.21 TR: You want to talk about why we formed the English Defence League – we formed the English Defence League because Islamic extremism is spiralling out of control in this country. Ok, it’s spiralling, it’s spiralling out of control in this country
08.26 GG: That’what I want to ask you about, that’s what I want to ask you about!, that’s what I want to ask you about!!
08.31 TR: Go on then.
08.31 GG: If you’ll stop and let me ask you about it. You say you are against Islamic extremists, but the truth is that you’re against Islam, you’re against Muslims, because you march against mosques in which there’s no extremism at all. Your people chant slogans against Muslims whether they are extreme or extremely moderate. So why don’t you come clean, like you’ve now had to do with you name. Why don’t you come clean and say you think Muslims shouldn’t exist in Britain.
09.04 TR: I have no problem with muslims. I have a problem with Islam when it is taken in its 7th century barbaric form in modern Britain, that’s when I have a problem, and I have a problem with Muslims not doing enough, not doing enough against extremists. If you just, can you just let me talk and finish without butting in. Muslims fly planes into the twin towers – no Muslim outrage! Muslims, muslims block the exits of burning schools with children because they are not covered their hair – no Muslim outrage! Muslims cut off, cut off the heads of 3 teenage girls – no Muslim outrage [GG INTERUPTS}
09.32 GG:[over the top of TR] Where was, where was that? Which city? Where – woah, woah –
09.35 TR: That was in Iraq, that was in Iraq. Just let me speak, Muslims kill [UNDECIPHERABLE – sounds like “eighty”] tourists
09.36 GG: [unintelligible] we’re talking The ENGLISH Defence League.
09.41 TR: yes
09.42 GG We’re talking about Britain! You’re whipping up hatred
09.46 TR: No you’re not going to let me finish...
09.47 GG: No I’m not -
09.48 TR interjection: why not?
09.48 GG: because you’re, because you’re deliberately conflating events in Iraq with events in Britain
[09.52 TR IS TRYING TO SPEAK IN THE BACKGROUND BUT GG IS PREVENTING HIM FROM BEING PROPERLY HEARD ~ No I’m not, what I’m sayin is I talking about the view not just in Iraq. muslims killed 50 Londoners ]
09.52 GG: Shut up! SHUT UP!!!, shut up!, shut up!, shut up and let me finish. Shut up an let me finish, you are
10.08 TR: You talk, and then I... Muslims attack our troops, Muslims burn our poppies – no Muslim outrage. Someone draws a cartoon of Mohammed, 700 people killed, 54 - 45 churches burnt to the ground,
10.15 GG INTERRUPTS WHICH MAKES TR’S WORDS DIFFICULT TO HEAR: 700 people killed
10.16 TR: someone talks about burning, someone talks about burning a Qu’ran – worldwide outrage
10.20 GG: 700 people killed where? 700 people killed where?
10.22 TR: most of them in Nigeria. Worldwide outrage, worldwide outrage. [GG INTERRUPTS DROWNING OUT TR’S VOICE]
10.24 GG: We are talking about the ENGLISH... Will you shut up! Will you shut up and let me talk? We are talking about the English Defence League, the presence of Muslims in ENGLAND, or if you like in Britain. Don’t keep talking about things that happened in Nigeria, or in Iraq. We are talking about the presence of 1.8 million Muslims in BRITAIN, and your campaign against them. The police say, the police say that you are causing more extremism by the thuggish, ignorant, violent campaign at which you are the self-appointed head. Now here is your last chance to tell us why the police are lying about you?
11.10 TR: Look, we are a symptom, why don’t they tackle the cause? ‘Cause everyone is too afraid to talk about the cause, the root of the problem. We’re a symptom, we would not be here if there was not militant Islam in our towns and cities. Why don’t someone talk about the problem, why don’t you talk about the problem George? We’re not the problem. We’re not - we’ve only come about because there’s a problem. [GG INTERRUPTS AND TALKS OVER TR]
11.26 GG: But the police say you are the problem though [GG TRIES TO PREVENT TR FROM SPEAKING]
11.30 GG: Why are the police lying about you?
11.31 TR: The police are too...because they are petrified about the Islamic community, same as everyone else is, they are worried about [GG INTERRUPTS]
11.36 GG: The police are petrified about the Islamic com......